Tayn : Paladin (Healer)

[Tayne]

Section 1 - Character Information
----------------------------------

Name: Tayn
Class: Paladin
Armory Profile: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Blade&n=Tayn
PVE Spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sxAzxG0siuutgdxMZV:dbTzcM
PVP Spec: N/A


Professions & Levels:

1- Mining/450
2- Blacksmith/450


1. Reason(s) for leaving current guild:

Transfered from Ysondre - lack of progression lack of activity

2. Why do you want to join TFB:

Friends from original server are there

3. Are you easily offended by racist, sexist, or other such humor?:

no

4. Do you have any friends within TFB? Any enemies?:

Jarridian, Tuber, Demy, Demyx

5. Do you have Ventrilo?:

Yes

6. Do you have a Mic?:

Yes

7. What is your internet connection type?:

DSL

8. How reliable is your internet connection on a scale of 1 to 5?:

4

9. Do you have any alts worth mentioning?:

Ezry, although not really worth mentioning - on Ysondre



Achievements:

How many achievement points do you have?: 5525
What achievement are you the most proud of and why?: Loremaster, because i stuck with it even after finding out it was glitched and had to find 40 more quests in eastern kingdoms (to much time on my hands....yes)



Our Raid Schedule:

Wednesday: 7:00 - 11:00+
Monday: 7:00 - 11:00+
(10Mans are Optional and schedule around these 2 dates)

What is the absolute Latest you can raid until, we often will go 30min to 1hr later than scheduled depending on progress and content left? Mommy doesn't tell me when to go to bed :|

Availability to Raid (List available START to END time that you can make)

Monday: 6pm - 11pm
Tuesday: 6pm - 11pm
Wednesday: 6pm - 11pm
Thursday: 6pm - 11pm
Friday: N/A
Saturday: N/A (sometimes)
Sunday: 6pm - 11pm



Section 3a: Misc.
---------------------

1. If the raid leader was to wrongfully chew you out in the middle of a raid, how would you react? (be honest and explain!)

I can take a good chewing out, I'll probably ignore it and bring it up afterword, no point in screwing the raid up more by screaming about something like that over the internet

2. If you were asked to sit out for a raid that you signed up for well in advance, how would you react? (be honest and explain!)

With a good reason yes i wouldn't mind, no excuses though, if its first come first serve i expect to be served



Section 3b: Misc.
---------------------

1. If you were in charge of TFB, what would you make the guild ranks called (Leader, Officers, Raiders, Casuals)?

The only thing i've change is casuals, their all pleebs in my mind :|

2. What two web sites do you visit the most for WoW information?

www.Thottbot.com
www.mmo-champion.com

3. If you lost both your hands in an accident and the doctors said, 'Well, we can leave them as stumps or we could attach the hands of a monkey', what would you do?

Monkey hands! crrraazzyy creepy fingers

4. Your best friend of the opposite sex is dying of a degenerative bone disease. One day he/she tells you it's their dying wish to have sex with you. You agree but after a few minutes he/she coughs, sputters and dies. Do you finish?

No, i don't think i could do that.

5. Why are you actively searching a new guild? What expectations do you have?

Just transfered here, looking for a top rate raiding guild, ysondre was lacking progression

6. How long have you been playing WoW and how many guilds have you been a member of?

Nearly 4 years, 5 different guilds

7. What is your longest tenure in any one guild?

7 Months-1 Year

7b. Was this a raiding guild?

Yes

8. Do you have any suggestions for questions that can be added to this section (bonus points given for non WoW related questions)?

What is the average speed of an unladen swallow?

[Purely Butter]

8. Do you have any suggestions for questions that can be added to this section (bonus points given for non WoW related questions)?

What is the average speed of an unladen swallow?

What do you mean, African or European?

[Eynon]

European.......NO WAIT!!!!


aarrrggghhh

[Dief]

Leveled professions, achievements, ... could it be that you care about your character!?

Hit Rallin up to get in on some raiding.

[Eagleclaw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b4bGAoVR7g

[Tayne]

Wow, you guys are on the ball, nice touch with the vid....

[Qaadolip]

Wow, you guys are on the ball, nice touch with the vid....

you'll find out soon enough that they really like balls of every size and shape

[Ddawg14]

Everything looks great

Get your helm enchanted though, i think you may have forgotten unless armory is slow

Your spec, its not bad, but i think there are better talent allocations for some of em.
One point in sacred cleansing is really just a waste of a point
2 Points in Purifying power, i like that you cleanse alot, but cleanse really doesnt cost that much mana and all the other spells that have mana cost reduced you dont use during a raid, so 2 talent points that should go else where.

other that all looks well, i would recommend for benefit of our raid you try specing for Divine guardian as we do have our pallies Bubble/sac a good bit

be on before 7 for our raids, monday and wednesday

[Tayne]

Thanks for the imput, i've been meaning to ask what specs you guys use. My helm is going to get the enchant, unfortunatly though for the last 2 days wow wont let me log onto Tayn.
If you could recommend a spec that would be great, theres a lot out there it seems.

[Turk]

I know Tayn from Ysondre when I was lvling my mage. He is a very helpful and too nice of a guy to hurt an ant (turkish expression). When I was duel-boxing a friend's warlock, his healing was very noticable.

[Ddawg14]

Spec is gonna depend on how many pallies we got that night, just be prepared to spec differently every raid

[Tayne]

Awww turkie! so nice!

[Bronyraur]

Close enough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x2W12A8Qow)

[Dief]

We will need you with a Ret and a Holy build.

Very proficient at both if possible.

Chances are you will play as ret for awhile and Holy only as needed.

Would that be of interest?

[Tayne]

Definatly I have a ret set thats quite good, naxx 25/EOE/Ulduar 10/25 stuff
if you want to take a look at it look for me online. I'm usually in my ret spec if i'm not raiding

[Dief]

Definatly I have a ret set thats quite good, naxx 25/EOE/Ulduar 10/25 stuff
if you want to take a look at it look for me online. I'm usually in my ret spec if i'm not raiding

Can you be online tonight for 25 and Thursday for 10man?

[Tayne]

I can be online on thursday night for 10man
tonight might be hard unless you only need me for an hour. I have some family stuff to deal with tonight.

[Epictetus]

I haven't been around for a couple weeks, so excuse the late reply.

I'm a bit more critical than Ddawg... to me your spec seems poorly thought out. Purifying power and sacred cleansing were poor choices.

Your points in ret and prot suggest that you have mana/efficiency issues. I would agree with ddawg and suggest you spec into prot. Especially after the changes to illumination.

I spec into ret, and that is also defendable (although maybe not the best spec any more). Either way you need to get those 3 points i mentioned out of holy or come up with a good argument to keep them.

You should also consider updating your glyphs. HL is good, HS isn't very good for PVE, FoL is mediocre but still viable. I would suggest changing HS to BoL or SoW. As with the points in holy, you should defend you choices or change them.

Good luck with your app.

[Tayne]

I don't care if you're critical of my build, I've just never been in a guild that wanted a holy paladin as a damage mitigator. It goes to show what sort of guilds there are on the server I came from. I don't have mana issues as much as I was left with the extra talent points because obviously i wasnt used to my potential in previous guilds.
I'm perfectly willing to make the changes required, i'm in no way stuck to my current build or gyphs...

[Tayne]

Also, well i understand the need to update my build, i'm not 100% sure which way to go, i've had people tell me to spec more into Prot for DS and I've had other people tell me to spec into ret further for more crit. Which way is more useful to TFB? I see that epictetus is spec'd into ret and not prot....what do you suggest

[Epictetus]

After the change to illumination, Ret doesn't provide as much mana return via crit. Crit is still nice tho. It's more fun for me, so that's why i like ret ;). Prot is useful for divinity, and the utility of DS and imp devo and BoP CD AND SS duration.... i think i may have convinced myself to spec prot, lol.

Either way is fine, I would probably recommend protection since 3.2.

[Tayne]

Ya thats what I've been reading, I guess I'll try out both anyways and see how i like them. like i said though, I'll spec however i'm wanted to be holy/ret or holy/prot

[Ddawg14]

only problem now is Divine sac sucks, it works as intended now, by only absorbing about 30k raid damage. Which is about 1k per raid member.

The only benifit from prot now is Divinity and Guardians favor (GF will be good for the new fight tonight).

And i guess if your a big fan of sacred shield then you could still spec for Divine Guardian

im almost leaning towards a 59/5/7... but the crits are just so fun!

[Tayne]

I think i'll start with the crit build and see how that goes

[Epictetus]

SS is a spell that must be kept up at all times now (even more so than before).. that's what makes DG worthwhile.

Divinity usually just overheals, but may have nice synergy with Beacon of Light now.

[Tuber]

Tayne likes men and he especially likes to heal men. Former guild leader from Ysondre hes a beast

[Ddawg14]

hes a beast
He's a dog

[Tayne]

*gasp*

[Ddawg14]

hmmm hope you arent takin that the wrong way

He's a beast
He's a dog
He's a motherfuckin problem
ok your a goon but what a goon to a goblin

^ written by the best rapper alive

[Ddawg14]

Decent job last night, was sad i didnt get to see your main spec to really be able to see your potential.

One word of advice, make sure when someone is battle rezed you rebuff your buff and make sure before every fight everyone has there buffs still. I use pally power to monitor that and make it easy on me (even that fails me sometimes), id recommend picking that up or just make sure ur on top of ur game

Also i see you have gemmed +Sp, why is this? Also with only 20k mana, how do you fare in longer more healing intensive fights?

[NoKz]

hmmm hope you arent takin that the wrong way

He's a beast
He's a dog
He's a motherfuckin problem
ok your a goon but what a goon to a goblin

^ written by the best rapper alive
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4817/lilwaynefb7ur3.jpg

[Ddawg14]

Thats my boy!

[Epictetus]

Glyph of Holy Shock is a poor choice for PvE.

Given the way you've chosen to gem your gear, I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Defend your gems.

Defend your glyph.

Don't just roll over and change them, tell me why you gemmed and glyphed the way you did. You need to show me that you can make intelligent decisions about your class. I'm not going to constantly tell you how to play.

[NoKz]

You need to show me that you can make intelligent decisions about your class. I'm not going to constantly tell you how to play.
You sound like a parent asking for a child to show them they're responsible enough to be left alone for the weekend. :cool:

[Turk]

Glyph of Holy Shock is a poor choice for PvE.



Then why the hell do you have Gylph of Holy Shock in your armory then saying it's a poor choice?

Epic fail!

Also, while looking at your armory, I saw that you still haven't enchanted your cloak. You also still have alot of blue quality gems, but so do I. I would personally get best gems and enchants if I was raiding again.

[Tayne]

I rolled over nothing epic, my spec was out of date, i reconized that and changed it. As for the way I've gemmed my gear, maybe you should do a little reading about YOUR spec before you criticize others. I can suggest one little piece that might teach you a little about the value of Gemming for SP vs Intell. Neither is better, both have draw backs and positives.

http://www.holypaladin.net/index.php/holy-paladin-gear-spell-power-or-intellect

As for my glyphs, Why not take at look at yours before you tell me I fail. According to your armory, you're using Glyph of Holy Shock, Glyph of Turn Evil and Glyph of Beacon of Light. Maybe its for PVP, maybe you just forgot you're using them. I find my glyphs work great for the type of Gem's and Spec i use. I'm done "Defending" my spec, my gems, and my glyphs to you. If a REAL raid Leader wants me to modify what i'm doing I'll do it or defend my reasons for specing/glyphing/gemming in that way.

[yovalord]

I rolled over nothing epic, my spec was out of date, i reconized that and changed it. As for the way I've gemmed my gear, maybe you should do a little reading about YOUR spec before you criticize others. I can suggest one little piece that might teach you a little about the value of Gemming for SP vs Intell. Neither is better, both have draw backs and positives.

http://www.holypaladin.net/index.php/holy-paladin-gear-spell-power-or-intellect

As for my glyphs, Why not take at look at yours before you tell me I fail. According to your armory, you're using Glyph of Holy Shock, Glyph of Turn Evil and Glyph of Beacon of Light. Maybe its for PVP, maybe you just forgot you're using them. I find my glyphs work great for the type of Gem's and Spec i use. I'm done "Defending" my spec, my gems, and my glyphs to you. If a REAL raid Leader wants me to modify what i'm doing I'll do it or defend my reasons for specing/glyphing/gemming in that way.

I do like that you are able to defend yourself in all honesty, however, we do not have a "palidan leader / officer" other than amura and blackwinds alt, and since amura doesn't and hasn't raided with us for a while now he may not be 100% up to date and probably doesn't read these forums much.

So instead of arguing with epic or ddawg, theory craft with them, the last thing we want is hatred for each other because it makes rallin a sad panda, that goes for all members, who knows? maybe you can teach them something. You did mess up the other day by not rebuffing when it was asked in chat about 15 times (blackwind doesnt use a mic, neither does indira, rarely sano, rarely many of our good players :D read chat) and it caused quite a fiasco, learn from your mistakes, dont let it happen again, and most of all don't take criticism badly, you're apping to us, were not apping to you.:tongue: Prove to us that you are worth being apart of our team. Good luck

[Epictetus]

I'll take this one step at a time.


I can suggest one little piece that might teach you a little about the value of Gemming for SP vs Intell. Neither is better, both have draw backs and positives.

http://www.holypaladin.net/index.php/holy-paladin-gear-spell-power-or-intellect

That website you sited was posted around May 4th. Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats BEFORE the change to illumination and JoL. That website was also arguing gemming Crit AND SP vs. straight INT. It made some good arguments. Notably that because of your higher SP you will have more efficient heals:

A paladin using this strategy will use Flash of Light much more often than a paladin stacking Intellect, allowing you to throw many quick, small, mana-efficient heals throughout a fight - perfect for raid healing.

I can tell you from experience that in hard mode ToC fights (well the first one anyways :eek:) that small, mana efficient heals are not what's needed from a Holy Paladin. In our raids you will be MT healing. The tank takes way too much dmg to be kept up FoL alone, and you will definitely be using HL. Much of which WILL be overheal. You can't help that, regardless of how smart of a healer you are. Therefore all that extra spell power you have been stacking is wasted.

Your glyphed Holy Light AoE will be more powerful.

True, but you're not in the raid to AoE heal. And in all honesty, it's a negligible difference.

Your Judgement of Light will be more powerful.

False. Since the patch, JoL does healing based on the attackers maximum health.

You can better respond to split-second emergencies.

The argument here is that with more SP, your FoL will be more viable as a heal to save people. Well, I guess, but really, how often is 300 more healing done on a Flash actually going to save someone? More often than not (much more often), that person would survive from a Holy Shock or Flash from someone with 300 less spell power.


Having said all that, everything the site listed about INT still applies.

Arguing with a website is fun, amirite?


my spec was out of date

You had put points into purifying power and sacred cleansing if i recall correctly. Neither are part of any outdated specs that I'm aware of. Those have always been pretty bad talents. Arguments can be made about having extra points, them being good situationally, etc. You didn't make those arguments. You can, they are legitimate reasons and I recognize that. You might think I think there's only one way to be a Holy Pally. I don't. Ddawg also glyphed for Holy Shock during 25 mans. I asked him the same question I asked you. He had good reasons and that was that. I know it can be used effectively. I want to see if YOU know that.


As for my glyphs, Why not take at look at yours before you tell me I fail. According to your armory, you're using Glyph of Holy Shock, Glyph of Turn Evil and Glyph of Beacon of Light. Maybe its for PVP, maybe you just forgot you're using them. I find my glyphs work great for the type of Gem's and Spec i use. I'm done "Defending" my spec, my gems, and my glyphs to you. If a REAL raid Leader wants me to modify what i'm doing I'll do it or defend my reasons for specing/glyphing/gemming in that way.

Now the fun part? I shouldn't have to explain myself to an app, but I will for the sake of completeness. I haven't raided a 25 man raid with any of those glyphs. If I was an app and did that, I would deserve an immediate boot from the raid. That would be retarded.

I used those two glyphs that you mentioned to do arenas. Something I've been doing quite often recently.

Currently I have the longest tenure of any currently raiding Holy Paladin in this guild. I'm not an officer and in the end it's not up to me whether or not you get into this guild. But my opinion doesn't count for nothing.

So all you've accomplished here has been to site an outdated website and try to attack my choice in glyphs. You still haven't explained your glyphs or why YOU want to gem spell power.



And to Turkee:


Then why the hell do you have Gylph of Holy Shock in your armory then saying it's a poor choice?

Epic fail!

Also, while looking at your armory, I saw that you still haven't enchanted your cloak. You also still have alot of blue quality gems, but so do I. I would personally get best gems and enchants if I was raiding again.

Holy Shock is for the PVPs

And I know I'm behind on the whole updating my gems thing but I'm not the one apping. And I wan't criticizing the quality of his gems, I was criticizing the type.

[Purely Butter]

As both Yova and Epic said, you're the app, TFB asks the questions. Epic hasn't raided in forever(Just ask about the fragments) and thus I wouldn't take his Armory to heart but rather his ideals, which is what he posted. Also, you gave Epic his source to crush your opinion on this(at least in my eyes, but Im sure someone agrees). Your site discusses Stacking Int(which it says is better even before patch) vs. stacking SP/Crit. You stacked SP/MP5, which is not what the site discusses. Also, Epic pointed out its out of date. The advantage to EJ over other sites is they begin testing and theorycrafting as soon as the PTRs are up so reading them should you have ready for a patch before it hits. Things change, for fucks sake I might be switching BiS weapons because of the change to Sword Spec.

So in summary, please answer the original questions by defending your choices, not attacking his. Defense is the one that wins games.

[Ddawg14]

Also i see you have gemmed +Sp, why is this? Also with only 20k mana, how do you fare in longer more healing intensive fights?
I would still like these questions answered

Me and Epic both have one toon and that is our pallies, we know them very well. As Epic said, there is no 100% correct way to play a holy pally, many do things completely different than expected but still come out with the same results. All we are trying to figure out is how well YOU know your class, not some website or your friends.

[Eagleclaw]

What I think everyone is forgetting here is that healing is about playstyle, not spreadsheets. If you haven't seen him perform in a raid setting, you can't really judge how well he plays. You asked for him to explain himself, and he did. It was a bit of a retaliation, but from what I read, you really had it coming, Epic

Good luck with the app, Tayn

[Rallin]

I like how everyone here seems to be putting a huge emphasis on what is said in this forum, like that the questions that are asked here will be making or breaking an app. No. People here should know my stance on damage meters vs healing meters -- who cares about healing meters if they do their assignment well? To judge that, this person must be observed in a raid setting. Questions such as playstyle should not be asked this far into an app process. They should be asked based off of a previous performance in a raid, not based off words typed a month ago.

Do not criticize for the sake of criticizing. If you are not providing relevant, up to date feedback based on previous performances at this point, stop shitting stuff up, as the "feedback" is useless. Thanks.

[Ddawg14]

Tayn, keep up the good work, healz are looking great.

But.......
I feel you are shorting yourself and somewhat your role in the raid.

First off, we are paladin healers, when you think "HOLY" pally BIG HEALZ comes to mind, and thats what we are mainly in the raid to do, keep tanks alive. We have Druids, shaman, and priest to pick up those 4-7k healz.

Dont get me wrong you are doing good but im sure you can take it to the next lvl with holy light spam over flash of light spam like you have been. Props to ya for gemming SP whitch is good for FoL spam, but regemming int and HL spam will benieft you and the raid alot more.
To me, gemming SP right now for Holy is like Gemming ARP for RET...It helps, but there is a stat that helps 10x more

Also, i have been trying to chat with you in game about this but i feel i have been being ignored. We are both here to be our best and sometimes some friendly theorycrafting is a nice thing to have for both our benifit. Im gonna create a pally channel (if there isnt one already) so we can start chating a bit more

[Epictetus]

goo set one up already.

/join uthersbarandpub

[Ddawg14]

Goo would come up with something crazy like that

i made one as well /join tfbpaladin